Discovering Fashion in Cinema: Journal

Suzanne

I have spent a lot of time trying to think about the different ways that fashion works in cinema, as you’ve indicated, narrative. It’s role in narrative is one of the key elements. I would also say that there’s obviously ways it works in design, which we might be able to talk about later.

Film style. Um, and then there’s also a, I would say an extra cinematic dimension; it’s involved in promotion and branding of not only of stars, but also directors themselves, including Coppola. But in terms of narrative, I think this is, as you’ve said, it’s often something that people don’t pay attention to in a film. In a costume film, I think it calls attention to itself.

And so there are lots of just because of its difference from our own time. It seems the clothing seems obvious, because it seems so foreign, but a good fashion designer, one who, um, Sofia Coppola has worked with often, Nancy Steiner said, that if a costume designer is really doing her job, you don’t notice the clothes. They fit in perfectly to the narrative.

But in my book, I focus on Coppola’s six feature films. She now has seven but six when I was writing. And Marie Antoinette I know for your listeners is going to be the one that comes to, on top of their heads.

She was working with a very famous, uh, costume designer, Milena Canonaro. Um, she had shoes designed by Manolo Blahnik. 

Muaz

They got the Oscar for costume design on that as well, didn‘t they?

Suzanne

Yes, absolutely. And deservedly so I would say. Because she was using I’m sure all of the listeners who are really into costume design will jump to say that what she did was she studied the costumes of the period and you can compare a photos of Marie Antoinette and Kirsten Dunst in the film, and they are almost identical, but she used newer fabrics and use clothing in a way that was more contemporary and more modern to bridge the gap between the past and the present

In this instance to underscore the narrative that Marie Antoinette, if we think about her as a person, was really a young girl having left behind her whole family and life in Austria to pick up an entirely new one in France. And where she had to basically refashion her entire self.

She had to go from a little girl. And one of the great scenes that shows how that works into the narrative is that the, in French is called the remise, but is the handover where she goes from Austria to France. And she literally goes through this tent where she is; She comes in as a young girl holding her little puppy, and then she comes out on the other side, transformed into the queen.

Well, actually the dauphine and then she will become the queen. So that shows in a way, very overtly in terms of costume, her transformation, she’s literally stripped naked and then redressed in French style. So in that film, it’s, it’s really obvious and a part of the narrative. But if you take another film like Lost In Translation, which I think is probably the Coppola film that most people know alongside Marie Antoinette, it’s less obvious. You might think, okay. You’re thinking to yourself right now. What was Scarlett Johansson wearing in that movie? I don’t remember… And if you pay attention to the film, you’ll see that, that is part of the point. She’s a philosophy student who doesn’t really know where she’s going with her life. And so she dresses, like we might expect a philosophy student to dress.

She’s got often sweaters over a shirt or she’s wearing a blazer and all muted tones that contrast with the,  dynamic colours of the Japanese landscape that she finds herself there. So she’s, you don’t pay attention necessarily to her clothing. But even in that film, it’s really important because there are pieces of clothing that show the gradual connection between Scarlett Johansson’s character, Charlotte and Bill Murray’s character, Bob Harris, they meet in a hotel and they often meet in the public spaces in the hotel and they meet in wearing like hotel bathrobe and those, um, slippers that you get the disposable slippers.

And you can track their connection through some of the clothes they wear that’s similar. The scene that finds them coming together, not in a sexual way, but intimately they’re both wearing pajamas covered with a dark sweater. So they look the same. So that shows their, their connection. 

So I find it really interesting the way that fashion can work, even when it’s really subtle like that. That it still drives the narrative and shows things about the characters that as you said, you might not immediately recognize, but it’s working to shape your perception of the film narrative. 

Muaz

Almost addressing from this point, someone was telling me something similar about how in My Fair Lady. How, from the beginning, how, what she was wearing as the movie progressed changed as a depiction on what they presumed her social class was. And it’s not done in an overt way. It’s almost subliminal. You start absorbing this right from, you know, as you progress through the movie. And, and I didn’t actually think about that.

But now looking back after having these conversations and after what you’ve actually just mentioned, you start actually thinking about, okay, this is quite complex… what the director, what the costume designer is actually trying to portray. So  absolutely. 

Suzanne

I think that’s a really interesting example because as you say, she, they have her deliberately, she’s like a flower girl.

And so she was dressed like in streetwear and then as she becomes “civilized”, then her clothing shifts, um, along the same lines, as you see in Marie Antoinette, because there’s, you can see them, the, the connection that they’re trying to point out between fashion as being, not simply clothing, but also manners of, of gesture and speech and right, that this is a much larger presentation. A movie that I would encourage you and your listeners to seek out is another one from the 1990s called Party Girl with Parker Posey.

And because that shows you something in reverse. She starts out as a party girl and part of her identity is that she dresses really fashionably and she’s trying to get the attention of a guy. And there’s one sequence that I adore where she parades before him. He runs a falafel stand. And so she parades before him in this like series of beautiful, like vintage clothes, trying to get his attention and he’s, you know, obviously sees her, but he’s not interested, but what she discovers that she really wants to do is she wants to be a librarian. And so she transforms herself from this, you know, fashionista party girl into a librarian. And so it goes sort of the reverse way of My Fair Lady.

Muaz

Wow. I haven’t seen that movie, but I definitely now will. Actually going back to Marie Antoinette, one other interesting thing that I found about that movie is how almost how it portrays, how a socialite would act and how a socialite would interact with fashion. So for example, the scene where they’re picking shoes and they’ve got, and you know, they having all of those sweets…

So it’s almost like a luxury personal shopping experience that you know, that they’re having there and all of these aspects, it makes it modern. And at the same time, you can imagine this is actually how it happened back in the day. So that was really interesting as well. 

Suzanne

I think those are both really good points and that occurs at a moment in the film where she’s been so beaten down by the established Versailles style, which is very ornate. And I don’t know if you remember that it’s all these very elaborate patterns on her dress and on the wallpaper. And in that scene, as you say, it’s got the soundtrack from Bow Wow Wow’s I Like Candy. Uh, so you’ve got the soundtrack and reinforcing the sort of contemporary ideas you say of like a personal shopping experience. But you’ll notice there that then it’s in a way, her refashioning herself apart from the established order.

And she’s, she’s picking these beautiful pastel solid colors, and everyone remembers the sequence that beautiful montage where you see all the shoes. Um, with the sneaky shot by Coppola’s brother, Roman, of the Converse high tops among the shoes. He actually threw that in as a joke, um, because he was doing, he was being the, uh, second DP on that part, the second team.

And so he threw it in as a joke, but she liked it because it conveyed that idea that here’s Marie Antoinette and her friends. And they’re just sipping champagne and they’re eating pastries and they’re picking out the clothes that other people are going to make for them and the hair. And you remember it ends too with a special appearance by her coiffure and she gets the gigantic pouf, right? Yeah. And turns to the camera and says, it’s not too, is it too much? Right. Which of course it is. It’s over the top and everywhere. 

Muaz

And it’s also really interesting. Like you mentioned the other aspects outside of narrative on how it influences the surrounding world, outside of the movie. Of things, of how it could potentially drive design, almost like cinema acting as a muse to other fashion designers.

So for example, uh, you could see a number of the silhouettes on the runway, not many years after that, you know, for like Dior and a number of other fashion designers, you know, you could almost see nods to a number of those pieces on the runway. 

Suzanne

Yes. Yes. And I think that that was fueled by the film. Apparently Coppola really wanted, uh, John Galliano to design the costumes originally. And yeah. So it’s not unsurprisingly, then he did sort of Marie Antoinette inspired clothing around the same time. But Vogue, you might remember, did a big spread, um, coincided with the film. And it has it, it’s just a treasure trove, that issue because it’s got, um, information about Marie Antoinette, from the biography on which Coppola, um, created the film.

And it also has a spread of more contemporary designs of what those kinds of gowns would look like now as couture gowns that were specially commissioned by Vogue. But I think you can see some of the ripple effects even down the road, every once in a while there’s another sort of Marie Antoinette inspired trend.

And by now, as, as you’re indicating, it’s not just Marie Antoinette, the historical figure, it’s Marie Antoinette filtered through our memories of Coppola’s film, and then it comes out the other end is this sort of amalgam. Um, yeah, the mix of them. The same thing happened with her film, The Beguiled. You can see a straight line from the dresses that she has in the Virgin Suicides for the young girls, when they go to the prom, these handmade dresses of the 1970s period, but then she sort of revisits in The Beguiled that become the dresses like cotton dresses that they would have worn during the civil war. During this time of deprivation and they had to wash them multiple times. And so they were like, and they weren’t wearing corsets or any underskirts because, you know, they, they weren’t dressing to go out sort of like us now. And then that there was at about the same time, the sort of Prairie chic trend with designers like Doen and Batsheva.

Who were doing all the same kinds of long dresses, uh, long cotton dresses. And so you can see similar crossovers and that phenomenon goes way back to the 1930s and 40s when it was a deliberate strategy on the part of the studios to sell dresses based on the designs that women were seeing in the black and white films of the era.

On stars like Joan Crawford and less so Betty Davis, but, um, you can also see Katharine Hepburn started a trend for pants, Audrey Hepburn, who we’ve already talked about. Um, obviously the, the turtleneck and capri pants. So you can see how the cinema, apart completely apart from the narrative, the film narrative, can then capture the imagination of not only designers, but streetwear, you know, people just adopt, you know, like a simple turtleneck and pants.

Muaz

Yeah, absolutely. Like even, um, I think it was in The Untouchables. I think it was Armani. Right? And it’s on the back of that Sean Connery’s laid back dress style of being casual, sweaters, you know, almost like he was either, he has just had a round of golf and that whole narrative of how he was dressing for that movie saw quite a significant spike in people trying to emulate that and trying; So it was almost like a marketing coup for them because that movie was, ended up being so successful as well. And when they were trying to see how the looks were put together, at least during that period brought Armani top of mind. That, you know, wow. if you want to look like that, this is where we need to go. 

Suzanne

Yes, absolutely. And I would say the same thing about American Gigolo, uh, with Richard Gere. Yeah, and I, and I would, I’m glad you brought up men because I think too often we think about, uh, fashion in terms of feminine lenses.

And there’s, I mean, think about all of the iconic male dress that has come to us through the movies. Uh, think about the tuxedo, for example, Fred Astaire. You can make the connection to Sean Connery and James Bond. And maybe, maybe more Roger Moore, less maybe Daniel Craig, but you can see how then that becomes the staple.

And there’s a great scene in Lost In Translation with Bill Murray, where he’s, he’s doing a commercial for Suntory Whiskey and he’s wearing a tuxedo. And one of the things that I like about that scene is Coppola shows us the behind the scenes filming of the commercial and you can see him turned around in a director’s chair with his tuxedo clipped at the back.

Because it’s, you know, they’re the behind the scenes, uh, work to make him fit the role that he’s supposed to be embodying, which is of the suave, debonair, whiskey drinking celebrity and how ill fitting it is literally for him at the time. Um, the tuxedo doesn’t quite fit and he’s, he’s uncomfortable with his celebrity role.

And so it’s, it’s really interesting, I think too. And I think probably, we discount the fashion worn by male characters, uh, to a greater degree than the female characters for some reason, because I think that, you know, male dress doesn’t register changes as overtly, perhaps as female dress, but it often goes unnoticed.

Muaz

Also, I think with, um, I could be wrong about this, but with like male design, it doesn’t drift as significantly. It’s almost like it’s not as elastic when it comes from one generation to another generation. If you look at… for example, a men’s suit from 50 years ago to what an office worker wears today.

And if you look at that same parallel for a woman, you know, the jump is a lot more significant. So it feels like women’s design, oscillates and extends further than men’s fashion. At least from personally speaking. 

Suzanne

Well, and I think that you’re right, there’s a lot of people who have written precisely about that, uh, and about the, the divide that we’ve made and that then fashion, that whole notion about change in fashion gets associated with the feminine.

And then there’s, I think a disturbing narrative that gets attached to feminine dress. That then it’s frivolous and ephemeral and wasteful, and we don’t make the same, uh, claims about male dress. Where if  you pay attention. And of course men’s wear designers would encourage us to do that. 

There are changes in palette and silhouette that once again, I think, as you say, it has to do in some ways with these very stereotypical notions about gender and that for men, this is just like not important. They’re going to wear the uniform. They don’t have to care about it, whereas women do. Um, and it goes back to like long, standing I think stereotypes about it. 

Because I think, the other thing that you’re suggesting with the idea about what fashion is, is I would argue that it goes beyond simply dress that then what we’re looking at are also trends and changes in, I mean, we’ve talked about footwear obviously, but an accessories, but decor, architecture, it goes… music. It goes way beyond simply clothing and film creates a whole fashionable world.

That’s a part of the period that is trying to evoke. So it extends way outward from just clothing to all the visual elements that we can see on the screen are, are reflective of fashion in that larger sense. And I think now fashion in that larger sense. It extends to music, athletics. I mean, think about in my book, I, I, I like to use the example of, uh, the American basketball players in the NBA.

Muaz

All right. It feels like a runway as they’re walking to the..

Suzanne

Don’t you think so? They are so concerned with dressing for just that brief moment where they go from there, the bus into the arena so that people can see what they’re wearing or when they come out of the game. I mean, this was of course pre pandemic, but maybe we’ll get back to that.

Yep. Yep. So definitely I think that there has to be equal attention when we talk about these things to women’s dress and men’s dress, and also to the ways in which sometimes they are overlapping, there’s this growing androgenous, form of dressing. Is that something that crosses over. And so maybe we will see going forward some sort of relaxing of those stereotypical divisions. 

Muaz

In addition to narrative what, so you mentioned world building when it comes to fashion in cinema. So what other aspects in addition to narrative does fashion play when it comes to a movie? 

Suzanne

Well, I would say as well that it extends in the case of Coppola and, and many others. Um, I try to give some other examples in my book. To the, the way in which it is actually filmed. Coppola was trained in the fine arts. She started studying painting and her art teacher said, okay, you’re not a painter. So she switched to photography and her way into photography was through fashion photography. And so she takes that training and that interest, that way of seeing through commercial fashion photography lenses and translates that into moving images.

And she does that deliberately by invoking individual photographs. So I know we’re talking too much about Marie Antoinette, but think about the opening of Marie Antoinette, where Kirsten Dunst is on a chaise and she’s being attended by her maid. That is actually, that’s actually based on a photograph for Charles Jourdan shoes by Guy Bourdin.

And so she is there deliberately invoking a fashion photograph. But more generally, she uses some of the standard conventions of fashion photography. So she often arranges her characters on the screen in the, in arrangement like a fashion tableau, like you would see in Vanity Fair of the Stars, for example.

And sometimes they’re barely moving. And so that also retains allusions to the still form that she’s using. She often features her characters, like I said, in, um, Party Girl in some form of a catwalk where the characters are actually like walking as though they’re on a runway. So she’s, she’s using some of those conventions.

But what I also think is interesting is that her own, she has this film style that we associate with her that’s natural lighting and muted colors. Even though everybody likes to say that the colors in Marie Antoinette are very bright… they’re, they’re actually sort of pastel based on a Laduree Macaroons, that she, and that there’s very slow pacing at times, almost like a still photograph.

And so we associate that with the director, so she has a style. Um, and then she has actually crossed over and used that in commercials. So she’s done some from Marc Jacobs Daisy perfume, and you can connect the dots between the images of those Daisy perfume ads to her film, the Virgin Suicides. She’s done others for Miss Dior, that, it might not be exactly her film style, but there’s some overlap.

So the ways in which you can develop a style of film, that has a debt to fashion photography, I think is very interesting. And you can see, I would say of other filmmakers who I would argue, do the same thing. Um, let’s pick a male filmmaker. Let’s pick Wes Anderson. Um, right. You can, can’t you see it.

Cause I think Wes Anderson goes even more over the top and showing you a still image. His are very symmetrically framed and, and he’s worked to create an aesthetic. The Grand Budapest Hotel I think is probably a really good example of that.

Muaz

It feels like an editorial…

Suzanne

It feels like doesn’t it? Yeah. The idea of a fashion story. And he did, after he did The Darjeeling Limited, he did some commercials for, I think it was for Louis Vuitton doing luggage and, you know, that was basically cross promotion for his film. 

So I can, you can see how then a filmmaker’s style can then get exported in a way to sell an actual product. I mean, and of course, film itself is a product, right? We buy tickets, we buy DVDs. So that, that intersection of art and commerce I think is evident in film in this way.

And there’s a, you can think of Wong Kar-wai. Did you see the film Queen and Slim by Melina Matsoukas?

Muaz

No, I haven’t seen that. 

Suzanne

Okay. If you’re looking for another film that has, I would say a commercial aesthetic, she first started doing music videos, um, as Coppola did as well. 

And you can see in Queen and Slim, which is basically a road movie about two African-American characters who go on the run and you can see her invoking the styles of the civil rights movement, but also then the eighties, the seventies and eighties, and she uses, I would say a similar style that invokes its commercial roots in fashion photography or commercial photography.

And in this case, you know, moving images. So there, there, there has been lots of work now about fashion films being not films about fashion, you know, Hollywood or Bollywood or, uh, British films about fashion itself, fashionable figures, fashion photographers, but the films made for fashion houses either by commercial directors or by, uh, up and coming directors.

Those being an artwork in themselves. Short films that are, you know, the, the equivalent in the commercial space of short film in, you know, the art house or the commercial cinema space. 

Muaz

Absolutely. And it’s almost like, especially during fashion seasons in all the various fashion weeks. And  I’m not sure where there’s more during lockdown, but because it’s become a lot more digital, it’s getting distributed a lot more quickly.

So people are starting to notice it maybe a lot more because they don’t need to participate or be physically present for a closed screening. It just gets distributed onto their Twitter feed and, you know, and pretty much everywhere. So, but absolutely, so I did notice it when I saw Dior’s latest collection and I was like, wow, this looks absolutely amazing. It wouldn’t be out of place seeing it on a big screen. 

Suzanne

Yeah. Well, and I would also give as another example, the series that Gus Van Sant did for Gucci with Harry Styles and Billie Eilish and other people in it. It was interesting because I think that many people expected it to be more cinematic. As you say, have a narrative have acting, whereas he made it more like a fashion film I would say. Even though he’s a cinematic director, he made it more like a fashion film where the actors are not really actors. They’re a model and musicians and not actors and really heightened attention to the clothing. So that like exactly the reverse of what you would expect in the cinema space where it’s there, but it’s folded into the narrative. Here it was, you know, like sticking out like a sore thumb. Um, and I, and I read lots of criticism of it for, for that reason. But before the pandemic, I think you’re onto something. There were lots of people who were arguing against the wastefulness in the fashion world of jetting around the globe for all of these fashion weeks and that we should be perhaps moving toward alternatives, including digital shows.

And lots of people have been predicting that then the traditional runway show would be a relic of the past and we would move on, I’m thinking we might not be fully there. 

Muaz

Yeah. I think we might be a way off, but at least from what I’ve seen on the buyer side, that gets a bit complicated because when you’re spending so much, you want to actually see what you’re physically spending it on.

Suzanne

And I think that, that, that’s very interesting. Cause you said, see, and I think that this is the problem and there’s a great book about early cinema. Cinema of the 1920s and thirties by Irglova, Marketa Irglova, it’s an edited collection and it’s a beautiful book and she shows how in early, uh, film, silent film, black and white film. 

They had to try to convey a movement of garments and they could use lighting to bring out textures and, uh, the movement of dancers to show the flow. And I think that this is one of the other things that cinema, is a challenge for cinema, is to convey that tactile dimension, the material.

Muaz

Absolutely. The feel. Right? Absolutely. That would be interesting. That would be in an ideal world. I would like to see all of these hurdles overcome because you’re absolutely, absolutely right. If you don’t need to travel then you shouldn’t travel. So that was something I will keep my eye on. 

Suzanne

Cause you might think about how in, for example, black and white, I think it shows itself best in black and white cinema. How are you going to show variety? So you can’t do it through color, right? So you have to do it then through texture. And so sparkle, feathers,  you have to, fur, you have to find something that the light will capture the three dimensions of, to convey that tactile sense. 

And there’s, there’s some very interesting film scholars right now who are working on the phenomenology of film and trying to suggest how it, how it tries to bring up all of our senses. I mean, I think for us, visual is primary and then auditory, secondarily, right.

We are really aware of how sound augments it, but then the, how it can bring up not only touch, but even smell, you know, how you’re going to convey that. And obviously commercial photographers have to work with that and like the food space and all of those cooking shows, for example, how are we going to, you know, smell? How are we going to taste? These are, these are challenges that filmmakers have to, to convey the multi-sensory dimension of the fashionable worlds that we live in. Right? 

Muaz

Absolutely. I never actually thought about in a black and white movie, how it would need to get those points across. And that is really interesting. And I will need to go back and rewatch a lot, a lot of movies, and I’ll probably be looking at them through a different set of eyes. It is fascinating how broad and how deep fashion can integrate without you even realizing that it is actually present. And it has this effect because you’re right. It is world building without you even realizing that that is actually happening. So that is incredible. And I’m sure a lot of people listening to this, I can get a lot of value out of this. 

Suzanne

Well, I certainly hope so. I’m, I’m delighted to hear that you are going to look at the movies with fresh eyes, because I think that that’s, that’s a real compliment. If the work that I’m trying to do and other people who’ve written about fashion and film, I think that’s, that’s our goal is to make you look more carefully. And more closely and to appreciate all of the work that goes on to create these amazing immersive spaces. And now that we’re all locked, locked in, we have so much time to look at it and to look more carefully. 

Muaz

And I thought I already was, and I can’t imagine what other people are going to think, who weren’t even aware that there were all these levels.

I started reading the introduction to your upcoming book. And I have to say that that is also a great introduction to fashion in cinema, even though it is focused on Coppola. So what brought you to look into Coppola? Fashion plays such a core role in what she does, but what was your journey that made you fixate on, on Coppola?

Suzanne

Well, this is a very good question. I’m delighted to talk about that. I was casting about for a project. I needed a new project and I went to see The Beguiled and I thought, Oh wait, this is a way to bring together all of the work that I have done to date. Perhaps I could look at this because I’ve done other work on adaptation of literature into cinema, uh, fashion and motorcycling culture, all of these disparate threads. 

And I thought, wait a second. Uh, there’s something here about her work that I, that is captivating to me. And that brings together all of these dimensions of the work that I’ve done previously. So for me, it brought together film, fashion, and a lot of her work or literary adaptations.

And so I thought, okay, there, I’ve got a trifecta and I thought I want to talk about all of the movies, because I’ve been a fan of her films. And I was partly, it was to answer the question for myself. What is it that I find just so fascinating about her work. And then I thought, okay, I’ve got it. And it was fashion as the thread, if you will, running through all of them.

And I thought, not just of the clothing as we’ve been discussing, but that it opened up fashion in all of these other ways. And I guess the one thing that I hadn’t really done much work about previously, it made me do more of a deep dive into the fine arts and to a painting and photography, which was just a dream.

But then also I’d done a little bit on celebrity studies, but not a lot. And. It’s inescapable when you’re writing about Coppola to ignore that part of her auteur personality, her auteur status is as a fashion icon. If you just Google as an exercise, Sofia Coppola, the first thing that’s going to come up is, you know, oodles of images of her.

You know what she’s wearing and there’s a whole Japanese book called Sofia’s Perfect World. And it’s, you know what she’s wearing to like walk through the streets of Paris or New York. So she started her, her status as a fashion icon also then had to be part of it. And I had to think a little bit about how the director has been positioned differently in the popular culture these days.

And I would say the same thing has happened to Wes Anderson. Um, he is a fashion icon as well with a lot of crossover of his, the, the clothing from his films, especially The Royal Tenenbaums. So that dimension to me was also very interesting how then a director becomes immersed in a larger fashion space.

It  also is, is about branding and promotion. And even the sort of technological vogues, because her last film on the rocks was the first one of the first films that Apple released in its streaming service. And so Apple’s move into the cinematic space was piggybacking on Coppola. And so I found that fascinating as well.

So the. And it was just like a germ of an idea initially. Okay. There’s something here about fashion. And then it just took me in so many different directions that I wasn’t anticipating. And that was. It was just such a pleasure, such a treat. 

Muaz

Well, I’m glad that someone wrote about this. I was surprised that no one has written about this and it is a fascinating subject.

Um, um, like I told you, before we started recording and when we were exchanging emails that every time Marie Antoinette comes up, you know, the second thing, well, at least the people I know the second thing that they say, Oh, wow, have you seen, did you see Manolo shoes? Like, you know, it’s just, it is so ingrained how fashion plays a role in that movie.

So anyone that knows anything about fashion, the two just, they, they work so well together and I’m glad someone actually wrote about that.

You can find Suzanne online at:

• Website: https://suzanneferriss.com/
• The Cinema of Sofia Coppola: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/the-cinema-of-sofia-coppola-9781350176645/

You can listen to the whole interview podcast over on our podcast page or by clicking here at Discovering Fashion in Cinema.