When I went to Art College, so I finished my A-levels and I decided I enjoyed being creative and I enjoyed my Art A Levels. So I decided to do an art foundation, which I did at Camberwell. And part of the foundation, we did all these different subjects. We did fine arts sculpture, graphic design. And then I did this few weeks doing textiles, and I was really, almost surprised that you could do a degree in textile design. And it kind of felt very natural to me to work with textiles. And I really, really enjoyed it.

I enjoyed lots of my foundation, actually. I love sculpture. I love the graphic design. I love fine art, but it was the textiles that kind of really captured me. And I think it was something to do with making process and working with my hands and the enjoyment that I personally received from that. So I decided to go on and do a degree in Textile Design.

And I applied to Chelsea College of Art. I remember walking around lots of different colleges that do textile design as a degree. And they’re all so different. You know, some of the colleges are very experimental with materials and I think there was something about Chelsea at the time, they had a very kind of graphic style.They were quite kind of, it was quite tight, their style and it was possibly less experimental. They were always really well known for doing florals. I think it’s probably completely different now, but, um, I really, really responded instinctively that Chelsea was the college where I’d like to do my degree.

And then it was the first year of the course we did lots of different specialisms again. So printing, knitting, embroidery, weaving. And when I got onto weaving, there was something about that experience. It was absolutely clear to me that this was my medium. I just loved, it’s a very disciplined process. It’s a very, it was quite a slow process.

You have to learn how to use the machines. You have to follow several different processes in a particular order in order to get results. And then it’s quite a slow process the weaving itself, when you finally get to cut the walk-off and you get this piece of fabric, there’s this enormous satisfaction that you get from having put in all these different processes and taking these cones of yarn and turning them into an actual piece of finished cloth. 

Muaz 

Amazing. You are very lucky to find something that early on that felt so natural to you. 

Margo 

I do feel very lucky that I found something that early on, but I also think, you know, I, I kind of really trusted my instinct and made a decision to kind of continue with this and connect with this. Um, and actually, I think that you can go on lots of different journeys in your career. You can go left and you could become a textile designer. Right, you can become a fashion designer. There’ll be very, very different experiences, but you can make either one good. You just take that journey and you commit to it and you make it good.

Muaz 

Absolutely. And that is such an important point. And that’s what a lot of people, they end up getting paralyzed because of the number of options that are in front of them. So they don’t realize that sometimes the important bit is just committing. Because sometimes you go on so many side quests, but not fully committing and that in itself creates all sorts of challenges. 

Because part of the enjoyment, I think, comes from being an expert at something. And that sense of fulfillment sometimes is never achieved because you’re striving to do to many different things. And sometimes people mistake that for not being satisfied at something, but it’s the lack of commitment to being an expert in something.

And that I’ve seen that as such a recurring theme, especially for people that are quite early in their journey. They’re like, you know, I’m not really very satisfied at this, but you know, I’m not very satisfied at these 10 other things that I’m trying to do. So what you said, the act of commitment to becoming an expert at something is such a key point that so many people overlook, 

Margo 

Even when I’m teaching now, I still run a few workshops throughout the year and often I’ll find students and I actually also have to remind myself, you can be designing something, weaving a piece of fabric. 

You weave one inch, one and a half inches. And you think, nah, that’s not working, the colors aren’t right. The structures aren’t right. It’s just, not feeling it. Commit to it. Weave a full sample. Make that piece. You had the idea, get to the end of the sample, finish it, and then you can look back later and actually once you take it off the loom, you’ll have a completely different relationship with it.

And it’s really important. I think if you have an idea, see it through, make the idea in some form. And at that point, then you can decide if you want to do something else or you might see something really magical happening once you’ve completed that full piece. And then you can take it on to something which has developed further. So that commitment in just that literal sense is really, I think, an important part of being a designer. 

Muaz 

Absolutely. And I’ve actually talked to this in so many different ways, even when it comes to, especially in the creative arts, there’s no such thing as a mistake because that could potentially unlock a completely different idea as you’re running through that.

Because the number of times we’ve worked with a design team or we’ve worked with a designer and they believe that they’ve made a mistake. But on reapproaching that a few days later, they’re like hmm, this is not bad, or, hmm this has given me another idea of how I could approach things, but it’s that commitment of just fully seeing it through and then looking at the implications of that. Specifically when it comes to things like the creative arts and design, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re absolutely right. Commitment is key.

Margo 

Often when I have an idea, I will remake it several times, making very small adjustments. So I might make the same design, six times changing one color here, changing the materials, changing the proportion slightly. And those subtle choices, even though they seem small. It’s by doing that real evolved development that you get something really special. 

Muaz 

Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s amazing. So talking about your design process, when you approach a new collection, what is your process and what are the stages involved?

Margo 

I sometimes work on full collections. Part of my practice, I’ve had my practice now for nearly 20 years and I almost feel like every piece of fabric, which I create is an evolution of something which has gone before. And so there is something, there is some sort of continuity through all my work, I guess, which helps me to have a brand identity, but it’s also my kind of constant striving to make each piece of fabric better than the one before.

But I do sometimes work on collections specifically for often when it’s in collaboration with another brand. So a brand wants to launch a collection of my designs. I often draw upon the archive. I often look at, you know, historically things which I’ve developed; my studios full of samples of fabric, archive pieces. And I often use those as a way to communicate with my collaborative partner on what they’re drawn to, how they see what I do being relevant to them. And we often look for a body of research, which helps to, one, inspire the visual identity of the project, but also which helps to tell a story. 

I, you know, I, I find that my research, it’s not just the visual inspiration, but it’s kind of the storytelling when it comes to talking about the textiles and for them to have their own kind of voice and personality. So once we’ve got a collection of images, a concept. I do initial sketches in a sketchbook which are very kind of, almost like back of a fag packet, scruffy sketches.

My sketchbook is not something which I would present to the world, but then I go on to do further sketchbooking in digital design programs. So these digital sketches, they are helping me to come up with form and composition, but they always have my understanding of what I know is possible on a loom. So alongside the computer design work, I also ensure that I continue weaving. 

For the last 20 years, I’ve always tried to keep my loom moving at all times because I work a lot with industry now. So sometimes I work with factories. They want to see a computer design. They want to see technical notes. They want to know how to produce it, which I can tell them. And it’s very easy sometimes to miss out the weaving part, because I actually know how to weave it already.

So what I’ve found has been really, really important to my practice is to keep making, keep developing new things on my handloom. And that’s when I think things get really exciting. And then I combine that with the graphic design programs. 

Muaz 

So you mentioned with regards to your process for a collection, what would the difference be? So you mentioned, for a collaboration of, for one off piece or for a commission. What are the main differences in your process when it comes to these differing types of almost like, uh, creations that you need to make. 

Margo 

So for me, my art practice is really like the core, the heart, the soul of my business. So when I’m developing fabrics for an artwork, what’s lovely about the Art side of my practice is that it is for me, it’s my personal expression. It’s not for a project. It doesn’t need to have durability. It doesn’t need to perform in a certain way. I’m making a piece of fabric because it is a personal expression of something which I want to, to create.

And that always starts for me. I’ve got a very big passion for color. So I’m always exploring how color can work together, how different colors can give different visual experiences, optical experiences. And I start by winding thread around pieces of card or pieces of wood. So it’s a very meditative process. We haven’t got, um, a visual here, but you know, this is, this is how it all starts.

I wind, I wind thread round pieces of card, and it’s a very kind of intuitive experience where I’m looking at how the color is making me feel. And I definitely get a kind of an uplift when certain colors are added. And a lots of my work is just an eternal exploration of color, form. They’re like abstract color studies, but often with this intention to try and create visual stimulation. 

Muaz 

Right. So for example, if you have an exhibition versus having a collaboration, how does that communication work? So what is the process that defines the final product? You mentioned that your core doesn’t change, but as you, the kind of questions you get probably are slightly different when it comes to these two different scenarios.

Margo 

With my art practice and my fine art textiles, the way that I normally get an exhibition is through some sort of application. So there might be exhibiting opportunities and I need to put forward some sorts of applications. So I, I need to be thinking about the space that this exhibition is going to be.

So often I would make work to suit the space to try and maximize the potential of my work and its relationship with the space. And often it’s, it is, uh, an application it’s I have to kind of come up with a concept and an idea which I can present to somebody. So this is what I would like to do in your space.

And then hopefully they liked that idea and it evolves from there. And then we try to make work, which is, you know, linked closely to the brief. When I’m working on a collection of textiles in collaboration for a commercial company. Where it’s, it’s usually got a specific end use. It might be that one of my long-term collaborators is alternative flooring. They make carpet. So I know that the designs have to work within a domestic setting. I mean, I like to push the boundaries of what people will use in a domestic setting, but at the end of the day, it has to work in a domestic setting. It has to perform in a domestic setting. And it also has to respect the boundaries of what the manufacturing can do.

And that’s actually a really big part of my process, is meeting manufacturers, who I see as craftspeople in their own rights and finding out what their skills are, what their specialisms are, what can this factory already do? Why are they established in what they do? What are their strengths? And then I look at my skills and what I understand from, from my own weaving practice and how I can add some of my value to what they do to make a new product that’s really, really special. And isn’t out there in the market already. 

Muaz 

That’s amazing. Like the point that you made about the conversations and discussions you have with manufacturers, with factories, that’s often overlooked. You know, that is so core, even if you’re a fashion designer, you know. When it comes to doing these things at scale, making sure that the kind of manufacturer that you’re working with, having such an intricate idea of can they meet your vision in a way that accurately reflects who you are, because that point is so easily missed. And a lot of people don’t realize the amount of effort that needs to go into that step. Almost like when you look at these, like, you know, these projects that get created and manufacturing decisions are an arbitrary step, but then once you start unpicking that step, the importance and magnitude of that step you know, can just not be understated. So, absolutely. I think that’s great that you brought that up. 

Margo 

I think it’s really important how you approach manufacturing. I learned this very early on. I remember I had this portfolio of fabrics, which I created during my M.A. at the Royal College of Art. All sorts of interesting textures and techniques and colors and different materials mixed together. And when I first started visiting mills and showing them to mills to see if they could produce them. I quickly learned that there has to be some sort of compromise and the way that I tend to approach manufacturing now is to first find out where the manufacturer’s expertise lies and then how I can bring a design element, which is going to really add value and make something really special.

And I think it’s really important to, to push them gently, but also to really respect what they do and to be able to get on with manufacturers, you know, you have to be able to fit in, in a, in an industrial setting. 

Muaz 

I guess it’s important that you match when it comes to your ethos as well, you know, in addition to how you approach your design, but also, you know, in things like, you know, what their processes are and more and more how sustainable their processes are, you know, where is the manufacturing done? Just to make sure that, you know the full lineage of what the final product is going to be, which can get muddied very very easily. So it’s also another thing about these days you need to keep a very close eye on, 

Margo 

I think as designers, it’s our responsibility to help teach manufacturers how to produce things that’s more sustainable. And it is very challenging because often they have setups where they have, you know, stock materials and multiple colors, and they’ve got something all set up, which is very, very easy to use. And so it’s how you can bring in new ideas, which will allow them to steer their ship in a more positive direction.

It’s the manufacturers that really, really do need to be supporting this journey. The manufacturers of the raw materials, and then the manufacturers who use those materials to purchase the right materials. 

Muaz 

Absolutely. Because it can be a really hard sell because especially if you want to reduce waste, weighing up getting 20,000 pieces created versus 80 pieces created and just weighing up the cost benefit of all of this and making sure that it translates into a sale in this day and age where people, you know, might not ordinarily value the amount of effort that goes into creating something like this.

Margo 

I think it’s something that all businesses, including myself, are really having to dig deep about at the moment. Like what is the best thing that we can do? And when I look at my own business, one of the best things I could do would be to stop manufacturing and just to make my artworks and just to make these single pieces which are exhibited and have a high value and have longevity.

But that’s, first of all, that’s not going to help industry as a whole. I also, as a designer, have the ability to help to bring ideas and suggestions to manufacturers so that they can work more sustainably. And if I was only to make my artworks, I would have to make, I’ve got 13 people who work for me. I’d have to make those people redundant. So for the economy, I feel more strongly about continuing with production and finding the best ways to do it and to teach other people how to do it well. 

Muaz 

Absolutely. Education and doing it in a collaborative way is really, really important because consumption is always going to happen. But if you’re taking that step to make sure that people consuming what you’re making, that you’re taking the step to make sure that you’re doing it in a responsible way, that output is in line with your ethos. And you’re working with the people who are manufacturing what you’re making and you are having those conversations with them. And it is a collaborative effort with them as well, because otherwise your customer would go elsewhere and they’d go to someone else who might not have your ethos, who might not have the same values as you and might cut corners.

So that’s why I think for designers just stopping what they’re doing is not the answer. They need to continue to make what they’re making. 

Muaz

What are common misunderstandings you see, like when it comes to what is textile design, from your description of the kind of processes you go through… The differences between fashion design have become a lot more stark during our conversation, but what other misunderstandings do you see when it comes to textile design?

Margo 

Historically, textile designers are often not named. Historically, if you think about all these famous fashion designers and all these amazing clothes, all the actual fabrics have also been created and designed by someone. Actually, you know, everything we wear, everything we use in our homes. There is a designer that’s created that fabric.

And I think as textile designers, that’s going to be an ongoing need for textiles. It’s a material that we will always need to surround ourselves with. And so we’ve got quite a big responsibility to create things which are made thoughtfully and with consideration.

You can find Margo online at:

• Website: www.margoselby.com
• Instagram: @margoselbystudio

You can listen to the whole interview podcast over on our podcast page or by clicking here at Being a Textile Designer.