Being a Prop Maker: Article

Virna

Well, I’ve done miniature furniture for a perfume advertising campaign for  Vogue that’s going to come up in a couple of weeks and I just did like miniature hats, like in the mini bed and a mini sofa, and then like a mini carpet, lots of miniature furniture.

Now sometimes they get asked to make I don’t know, giant birds or raindrops or anything weird and I love it. 

Muaz

All right. Perfect. So what’s the thought process that goes behind something like that? So someone reaches out to you with a concept or a commission. And then from there, what does the process work like? If you could give us an insight into how that works. 

Virna

Well, I work a lot with photographers, set designers, visual merchandisers, event organizers, and yeah, usually they come with me with an idea or like, I don’t know, they have an idea, this concept that they want to create for this particular photoshoot. And they would like to have this, I dunno, particular characters, uh, featuring, and, and then we kind of a brainstorm of different ways these things can be achieved. And it usually all starts from like a mood board and where everyone kind of puts in that, their input as well and then we just take it from there.

Muaz

So they just email you a mood board that this is the concept that they have in mind? 

Virna

Yeah. 

Muaz

And then you just started brainstorming around that, sending feedback back and forth with regards to that? 

Virna

Then once we decide what we want to go for, I have to come up with ways of how something can be achieved. And that’s the part I liked the most is like solving puzzles, because to be honest, I never know how to make whatever I need to make, but I always figured it out there and then, you know, and that’s, that’s what I like. That’s why I like this job because it’s always different and you always need to kind of solve some puzzles or you have to work with ridiculous budgets. So you have to still make it, like, make the most amazing things with like no money. So, yeah. And then we just get it, get it done. And I tend to do all of the props and to create everything myself. And then I always like to be on the shoot to make sure that the props are used correctly are displayed correctly.

So I also do some sort of like set design assistance, just making sure that the props are used correctly. 

Muaz

That’s interesting. We’ll come back to that later. Cause that, that sounds like an interesting process in itself. So. Your miniature furniture thing really intrigues me. So how did that concept even appear? So what did they reach out to you with? 

Virna

It was a really fun project because so many people were involved. I must tell you that I started making props because when I was starting to be a milliner, I was working in this restaurant and I met this girl, Carolina, who used to study photography at the London College of Fashion. And we also used to be living in the same area. So we started doing lots of projects together. I would make her random stuff for her photography and she’d help me with my projects. And I’m still working with this girl. Carolina came up with this concept of the miniature sets together with another company called the Thick Strings. So they came out with all the concept and the art direction and then, I was involved and there was another girl called Harriet that does miniature flower displays, and then a stylist was involved. So there were so many people that did lots of little bits and then we put them all together and it’s just incredible. I can’t, I can’t wait to see, to see the final pictures. 

Muaz

Yeah. I can’t wait as well now that you mentioned it. I’m really looking forward. I’ll keep an eye out, make sure you share a link to that. Perfect. So you started out as a Milner. So as you were developing your skills the foundation was based on millinery and then it developed from there?

Virna

Yep. 

Muaz

Oh, perfect. That’s amazing. So could you give us an insight into the journey from a milliner to prop design? And so just some insight behind that? 

Virna

Yeah well, even millinery just came by chance. I was supposed to go to Holland and study fashion design, but before going to Holland, I decided to do a year in London and I was working as a waitress. And one day we had this wedding and all these women come in with these most amazing hats on their heads, which I’d never seen before. So I got really curious and I did a workshop and lots of classes and I kind of got hooked and decided that I wanted to do this. So I did an HNC at Kensington and Chelsea College, and that’s where I met, and then I started working for this restaurant where I met Carolina Mizrahi and, after finishing my course I worked with the best British milliners and they all had very different way of working, very different styles. Some of them were very focused on the details and construction. Some of them were really more graphic and more contemporary. And I also freelanced for a company that did hats for all the Disney musicals. So then I learned a different way of constructing things. And because each person and each aspect of millenary is, is so diverse. You know, when you’re a milliner, you, you are a textile artist, you’re a wire worker, a welder. You make incredible intricate flower decorations and beading, so you need to know a lot of skills. And then when I set up my studio in 2017, I continued with my millinery. I started my millinery brand, but I tried pushing more on the prop side of things because I found it’s always different. And there you tend to work with a lot of people. It’s not just you coming up with an idea and just executing it. It’s a collective and yeah. And it’s just fun. You know, you always, always, always learn every time in every single project, always learn.

Muaz

So from millinery, you mentioned moving onto props. So what led to that? 

Virna

I think it was because of my friend, she kept asking me more and more to do props for her. And then I would go on a work shoot and meet other people. And then it just kinda snowballed. That, but yeah, the start was just making props for my friends.

Muaz

Perfect. So you mentioned when it came to props design that you get involved on the day of the shoot and that kind of makes sense because you want your props to be used in a way that meets how you were viewing them when you were going over the mood boards and trying to understand the visual aspects of how you were dreaming about it. Almost like visually perceiving it. So on the day, what happens at the shoot when you’re trying to make sure that the vision that you had is what the people around are trying to achieve? 

Virna

Well, on the day I work with the set designer, helping, you know, with installing the sets and then I just have to place the props in a way where they look good on camera and they look good from everywhere.

So I tend to look, I tend to kind of walk back and forth from the set and the camera to see what angle works best. And then basically spend the day just there, making sure that you know, that, that they always look good. 

Muaz

Right. So what kind of feedback do you get on the day? So you said make it look good, so what does that process involve? Making it look good… it sounds like there’s quite a bit of feedback that goes back and forth maybe between you and the set designer, maybe even the stylist and the photographer. So how does that conversation work? 

Virna

Well, we need to make sure that they are in frame, that it depends if, if it’s like something that needs to be prominent in the picture, then you have to place it in a way that it does what it’s supposed to do. Or if it needs to be something in the background where it doesn’t need to be seen too much, then you do have to kind of disguise it somehow.

So you kind of work with the stylist and the photographer, the set designer, everyone, just to make sure that the whole theme, the final result is going to be what the pictures need to be about. 

Muaz

Right. It sounds very complicated.

Virna

Yeah. I don’t know. I think it’s just compositions. 

Muaz

I think as you mentioned, millinery in general, requires a lot of skills in many different areas coming together. How does a person build those skills? So for example, if someone is starting out, what was your process almost to like build yourself up to this place where you’re so comfortable in doing this? So if you were, for example, talking to yourself from 10 years ago, what’s what sort of advice would you give if someone wants to become a props designer. 

Virna

Well, I would recommend people to work for as many people as they can, so they can learn from everyone because everyone’s got their own way of making things. They’ve got their own style. They’ve got their own special skills that they only use. So I recommend people to work with as many people as they can, and also to network network network. And nourish those connections, do collaborations with your friends. Yeah. And just go for it, even if you don’t know how to go for it, just, just throw yourself into it and do it.

Muaz

Amazing. So like, as part of this, are there any particular resources that have helped you out over the years? 

Virna

Yeah, I guess, as I was saying when you are a milliner, you’re a sculptor, a textile artist, a tailor, you’re a wire worker, a welder, and also, you know the opportunity I had of working within couture, millinery, theatrical millinery, commercial millinery, and I’ve also worked for a textile artist that did these huge installations. So that also helped me like understanding the way you can manipulate fabrics and the way you can create massive like installations with just like a 2d material. So all of this kind of help me. They gave me a different perspective. They kind of had me thinking outside the box, gave me a better understanding of construction, space, balance, colors. And also I was never scared of doing something I’ve never done before. So that also helped. 

Muaz

So it’s almost like the best resources for an individual would vary based on where their strengths are because so many different skills are needed. Like you said, like welding, tailoring, all these different things. So what might be a good resource for one person might not be a good resource for another person. 

Virna

No, but I think, I think it is good. It would be good to be kind of adaptable. Like, because your, you know, your medium doesn’t define who you are and I think you, yeah I think, you just need to, especially now with what we’re going through now, you need to kind of think outside the box. And see what you can do, what else you can do with the things you know how to do. 

Muaz

Right. And just experiment as much as possible. 

Virna

Yeah, have fun. 

Muaz

Absolutely. Which is important regardless of what you do. If you’re not having fun, you wouldn’t be doing it for very long. 

Virna

Exactly. 

Muaz

So when it comes to things like editorial props versus things like musical theater props, how do they, when it comes to thinking about them and when it comes to actually developing them, what are the main differences?

Virna

Well, the editorial prop you need for one day, so it is less robust. And usually, you only see it from one side. So sometimes it looks, you know, you’ve got this amazing thing on the front, but then you look at the back is like you have sticks holding it up.  But in theater, you know, they do a minimum like two shows a day and they do it for a very long time and things get knocked off here and there, all over the place. And so things need to be robust, strong, and they need to look good for a long time. So the making processes are very different. 

Muaz

Right. When it comes to things like the actual thought process around designing the look and feel is that part quite similar? 

Virna

You need to think about how either in a theater or in an editorial, on both sides they want the product or whatever the set, to be looking great. Because in theatre it needs to last longer. So when you design that, you need to take all of that into account. So you need to actually, you need to design it with a making process in mind. When in, in editorials you, you can just knock it up sometimes.  

Muaz

Right. And that would filter down into things like the mood board when you’re having discussions, that you would take those kinds of things into account as well.

Virna

Yeah. Exactly.

Muaz

Perfect. So like, what is like the turnaround time for something like that. So for example, this miniature, I keep on coming back to your miniature furniture because it’s just, it sounds fascinating. So what is like the turnaround for that? So if you have a commission, how long does it take to put something like that together. 

Virna

That is the problem you see; because, in fashion, everyone wants things for tomorrow. So then, you might talk about it for like weeks, but then by the time people make a decision, you only have like two days to do something, so it can be very stressful and you always live with the, with the idea that you’re never gonna make it, but I always do. I always make it, but you know, it’s kind of that living on the edge that is really, can be really stressful.

But in theater, you have, you have much longer turn around, like, you know I need this set… I dunno, and I need it because the construction is so different and I need it for like in three months. So you have time to kind of plan and do everything. But for fashion from the day, from one day to another and you need to do, and you need to find a way to do it and make it work.

Muaz

Wow. So someone can come to you with a mood board today and say, I want it on Monday. 

Virna

Yes. 

Muaz

Wow. That sounds very intense.

Virna

Because there are people, they always can, they can do it, you know? I mean, it’s stressful. And to be honest with you, I don’t think it’s very fair to put people under so much pressure, but that’s how it works and that’s how it is. And that’s how everyone works. 

Muaz

To be honest, you probably answered this differently already, but when it comes to your actual role, what are common misunderstandings that people usually have? 

Virna

Well, I think the industry likes to pigeonhole you, for example, just because you made three things that were pink doesn’t mean that all the things that you’re going to make are going to be pink, but you get asked to make pink things for a long time. And for example, I tried to get into the film industry for a while, with no success because there is this kind of prejudice towards like, I don’t know the theater work because in theaters you sing from a stage… So the details, they don’t have to be so, but that’s not true because everything is super done beautifully. And the detail, especially nowadays, everything gets filmed. So everything is to be done properly. But in film, they seem to think that because you worked in theater, you’re not as neat or precise. You know, and, and yeah. And, and also most people, you know, the misunderstanding is, yeah people think that we do have like a magic wand and you can just knock stuff, something up, from one day into another. Because they don’t have an actual understanding of our constructions. You know, they just come with the craziest ideas and they think you can just do it like this, but it takes a lot of thinking and processing, you know, to, to make it happen. 

Muaz

Right. I guess you do see this quite often when it comes to the creative arts, or probably even wider than that. Once people are perceived to be good at one thing, people stop… it’s almost like they’re too risk-averse. They are like, okay, well we know this person is good at this thing so we will only go to this person for this thing. So we’re not going to risk trying something else with this person, but then they end up potentially missing out on an individual who has got a lot of skills and it is unfortunate and it is something that does happen relatively, relatively often. 

Virna

Exactly. That’s why I like to collaborate with lots of different people. That they do very, very diverse things. Just because I don’t want that too, I don’t want that, you know, it’s just soul-destroying.

Muaz

Yeah absolutely. So what makes a good prop designer? 

Virna

What makes a good prop designer? Well, I think you need to be able to understand the brief, which is not always easy because not everyone can express their idea like the way you would express it. So you kind of need to, yeah. You need to understand the brief and you need to think outside the box.

So you need to think like all the possibilities, everything that goes wrong, everything that could be right, or even once you’ve done a job, you kind of need to look at it with a critical light and list everything that could have been done better. Because they can always be, have been done better. So, yeah, I think to be a good prop designer you need to be always curious and you always need to be wanting to learn new things, new skills. Also, you need to, you shouldn’t take things too personally, or get too attached to the things that you’re doing. And because you work with so many people and everyone has got their own, their own opinion.

Muaz

Right. I’m really bad with that. I get attached to things very easily.

Virna

Especially when you make something with your hands, you know, just then to give it away or when you see them, like they throw in it from one side of the stage to the other, you’re like oh my god… no, my baby.

You can find Virna online at:

• Website: www.virnapasquinelli.com
• Instagram: @virna.pasquinelli

You can listen to the whole interview podcast over on our podcast page or by clicking here at Being a Prop Maker.