Ben

I wanted originally to become an automotive designer. So whilst completing an ABC in Art and Design at sixth form college, I applied basically to Cardiff, Swansea and Hull, to go and do that. But at the same time, I had a teacher who had experience in, in jewellery design and making, and she introduced it to myself and obviously other people on the course and it was something that I really enjoyed doing. I kind of realized that having gone round to some of the university interviews, that even if I’d gone through post doing a course in automotive design, the chances were I would be part of a team, which would be great, but my input into say like the design of the car would probably be quite small. Until perhaps much later on in my career, and as I said, I was designing and making jewellery at the sixth form and I just, I loved the fact that I was able to be involved in all the processes from the design, the manufacturing, and even down sort of showing it to people and trying to sell it. So I actually decided to defer my offers to do automotive design and went round with my portfolio and pieces of jewellery that I’d made and ended up going to Buckinghamshire University, where I had three great tutors. And I kind of decided to go there having looked at a number of different universities. The work being produced by the third years just seemed to be really well executed and I, I felt that I had the best chance of sort of learning those skills by going to that university.

Yeah, it was, it wasn’t what I’d intended to do, but um, that’s, that’s kind of how I ended up getting into it. And then there’s been many a stepping stone from there as to where I am now. 

Muaz

When it comes to the metal that you’re interested in working in or the kind of stones that you work with. Do you start thinking about those things early on or is that something that, that you just naturally progress into based on where you are naturally, you know, finding your talent leading you, or a mixture of both really?

Ben

Yeah. No, that’s a good question. I think it probably boils down to the fact that it’s different for every individual. Myself, I always wanted. As I said before, I kind of didn’t want to just do one thing, which is kind of why I went away from perhaps the automotive route and into the jewellery world. And then obviously once I made the jewellery, there was this whole arena of silversmithing and for me, I get, I suppose the most enjoyment out of designing lots of different things. So not being restricted to say just designing rings or, or jewellery in itself, but being able to branch into sort of homeware and products, which I make in silver. And I think that sort of narrowing down is down to the individual. I’ve had to learn a broad selection of skills to be able to do what I.

But it’s still quite common for people to say, come off the back of a design metalwork and jewellery degree and say, I want to be a silversmith and therefore I’m going to specialize in hand raising. Or I want to be a jeweller and I’m going to specialize in just mounting or perhaps a stone setting. And you know, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that in in fact, you know, when you do obviously one thing and one thing only, you have the opportunity to become I suppose a true master of that particular technique. I wouldn’t say I’m a jack of all trades and a master of nothing, but obviously because I do lots of different techniques in my work, I do use other craftsmen to help execute the highest possible standards to create my designs as, as well as myself working on it.

If I was say, dealing with an expensive, uh, centre stone and an engagement ring, I would want the best setter to set that stone. So I think there’s different routes and avenues and it’s, it’s like if you were building a house, you wouldn’t necessarily, even if you had a broad set of skills to be able to do that, you wouldn’t necessarily do everything; from the groundwork through to the final decoration. So for me, that’s where I sort of come from it. But I went on a, on a journey of, I suppose, exploration from university where I went to another place called Bishops Land after, where I was kind of, you know, a lot of people leave university and you kind of wonder, what do I do next?

You either try and get a job in employment. You either go on to further education and do perhaps a Masters. or you look to maybe do an apprenticeship or, or get more experience in that field. And I was quite lucky that my particular field of metal work, jewellery and silversmithing there was a postgraduate course, um, in Reading called Bishopsland and it was run by a couple that who’ve done lots for the trade, and you kind of have to apply each year that they take on up to sort of like 10 new participants and from there you have to sort of live and work there. But it was a great introduction for me to sort of becoming self-employed. It’s obviously a tough time financially, you know, finding rent and everything and, and then also buying materials. But it was great because there would be a master craftsman or woman that would come. And teach you, you know, once or twice a week, you know, particular technique if you, if you need help with it. At the time when I was doing it, there was a, a guy called, uh, John Bartholomeu, and he used to be a technician at the RCA many moons ago.

And so we had access to that, but. The other thing that Bishopsland did for me was it introduced me to the Goldsmith company and the Goldsmith company being the people that have been assaying metal since 1300. And it wasn’t really something I knew anything about prior to to Bishopland really. And because of their heritage and what, what it’s all about the trade. They’re actually quite supportive to our industry for like young, upcoming designers and makers, and also people that just want to specialize, like I said, in a particular skill such as stone setting or polishing or something like that.

And you can do an apprenticeship with the Goldsmith company. So I didn’t end up doing an apprenticeship. But it got me involved with the company and like they have competitions for designers. And I, I was fortunate that back in 2010 I submitted a piece and I, I, I basically won that competition. And again, it then sort of is why I said it was almost like stepping stones. It led on to a different avenue for my career to develop. 

Muaz

When you look at a particular commission or a particular project, is there a creative process that you follow? Or even in general, are there particular stages you follow when it comes to commission or when it comes to a piece that is a piece that you envisage putting on sale rather than it being a commission? Are they similar or are they quite different? 

Ben

I think they’re quite different because. When something is a commission, it’s very much a conversation between the client and the designer. And I love that because even though you probably don’t have as much free reign as you would, obviously if you were designing something speculatively to sell, it kind of forces you to perhaps introduce other things into the design that you wouldn’t otherwise do.

So often when I’m doing a commission for someone and they want it to have a sentimental value to it. You get to sort of find something out about the client and, and their reasons behind it. You know, it could be something just to represent an item in their house or you know, a decoration in their house, or it could be more sentimental than the fact that it’s to sort of pay homage to a family member or something like that, or what they did and what I enjoy, I suppose, to keep it in line with my desired aesthetic is to subtly introduce those elements into the design in a way I, I see best to fit. So that’s, that’s something I really enjoy. It can obviously take longer when doing a bespoke commission because there is this back and forth. And I find the thing is with a lot of people that want to commission a piece, some people know exactly what they want and actually the brief ends up being quite narrow. But some people don’t know what they want, but they know what they don’t want. And that’s the conversation that you have where you have to produce some designs and it’s kind of like, no, that’s not what I’m after. And then you eventually get closer and closer and you hone in and then you know, you find that happy medium where as a designer you are pleased with what you’ve designed and then produced. And the client is also happy. But certainly when I’m making, I suppose, a sort of a speculative design to sell at a trade show or on my website or something like that, it’s, it is different because I find, because I work with precious metals, there’s obviously an inherent initial cost with it. And so over the years I’ve tried to design some things that, um, hit certain price points for people to be able to sort of like buy as a gift. But I also, in addition to sort of creating lower priced pieces, I think every year or every two years I try and design what I call like a hero piece. Something that stands out from the rest of my range or inspires another range. And you know, hopefully is something that gets people talking and if they can’t necessarily afford to buy, That hero piece, they might be wanting to buy another piece that has a similar aesthetic but hasn’t got all of those man hours that’s gone into making that that true one off piece. 

Muaz

I was talking to another designer, I think it was about three, four weeks ago, and, and one interesting thing that they mentioned is part of a commission is also it gives them the opportunity to move outside of their comfort zone, which also helps them with their creativity when constraints are put on them. Indirectly, you know, when they look at the broader picture, it kind of helps them when it comes to, when they do make their own designs because they might approach things in a way that they’re not comfortable with, and that just gives them unlocks when they’re looking at their own stuff.

They’re like, actually, you know what? I tried that there and that was really interesting. You know, why don’t I try it in my own stuff? Or you know, why don’t I go in this direction? Because you’ve just had a commission come in that was no way near how you might have even thought about doing something before. So I find it also interesting how sometimes when commissions do come in, it kind of helps a particular designer on the journey that they’re on.

Kind of takes them in directions that they might not have ordinarily gone in unless they’d actually had that particular commission. So almost like sometimes it can be as extreme as a fork in the road when it comes to that kind of aesthetic that they believe is their aesthetic. Yeah. So I found that quite interesting as well. But you know, for, for some designers it might not be. 

Ben

Absolutely. That’s exactly right. And that’s happened to me on a number of occasions with commission pieces. I would say when I first started designing pieces, they were quite sort of Scandinavian design, quite clean cut lines. But then the more jobs I’ve done work to commission, like you said, you, you sort of pick up a different aesthetic, maybe enriching the surface a little bit more with either some engraved pattern or playing around with different service finishes.

And that sort of developed my work. It doesn’t mean that you have to change, but you can have different ranges. For instance, it doesn’t mean you just have to produce one type or one style of work. I know lots of people that do just one particular technique and one style and it, it has its benefits because people instantly recognize a piece and go, I know who made that, I love that and I collect that work. But like I said earlier, for me, I like to try and explore as many different avenues as I can.

Muaz

So from a technology point of view, how does technology fit in all of this and how does it impact your designs and your manufacturing processes? 

Ben

Yeah, a lot. I mean, I think technology can be looked upon in lots of different ways, especially in, in the art world.

I feel. It’s there to be used as a tool. And that’s my sort of personal opinion on it. And I think it can also help with design creation as well. There’s obviously lots of programs out there, especially like parametric design programs where you can come up with a really basic design and just play around with, you know, an algorithm on the, on the computer, distort that.

We use Grasshopper in another sort of line of work I do with a business partner of mine who’s really good at Grasshopper. And it massively helps when trying to, um, generate lots of tweaks or slightly different design ideas. But for me, I always start on paper no matter what. On the back of an envelope, on a, in a sketch pad or just a random piece of A4. If there’s a project, a commission, or thinking of designing a new range, I always start on paper, draw it down, and then I move into CAD. I use Rhino 3d, and when I’m designing in CAD, it just helps me, figure out. It saves me time in the long run by spending more time coming up with a concrete design because I can sort of figure out if things are gonna foul or interfere with one another, I can sort of figure out how I’m gonna put the piece together and little simple things like if I wanted to see what design that had, maybe instead of, I know, say it was like a vase that had three arms to it, uh, three profile arms, and I wanted to see what it would look like if it had six. That’s, that’s something that’s quite easy to do on the computer. As opposed to sitting down and like drawing that out.

But I think, you know, you can never replace the human input, whether it’s the design creation, the initial thought, or in the finishing of the piece. I mean, you know, I, I do use 3D printing to create some of my pieces to get things perfectly geometric. But then the amount of time that’s spent at the bench working that metal, that casting to have a beautiful finish on it, that can only be done by hand and you know, it’s a marriage between them and I kind of, there can be, I suppose, like especially in the world of silversmithing, I sometimes feel that technology can sometimes be frowned upon, but the thing is, it’s not as easy as everyone thinks.

Learning a CAD package in detail. Knowing how to use 3D printers. It’s not just, you know, for some people that’s just their job, but I think it’s as long as you use it in the right way and don’t, you know, there’s no point a trying to cast a, um, I don’t know, like a bowl. There’s no point trying to cast a bowl that either needs to be spun or hand raised, but as long as you are using it sensibly. So that’s what I try and do. And I always, again try and draw the analogy to some sort of purist who say, you know, silver should only be handworked with a hammer and a stake. And saying, well, we all love to, you know, cook on a barbecue, but we don’t all go home at night and cook on an open fire because that was how it was done originally. We use a cooker and a microwave or a hob, so it’s, I think it’s just about knowing when to use the technology and not to be reliant on it either. So I can draw by hand, I can make by hand, but I will use the computer and other, such as laser cut and water jet cutting to get something precise.

And that also helps keep costs down in the long run as well when that that product is being sold. I, for instance, make these Christmas decorations and they, they fan out into a 3D object, and you can spin them clockwise and counter clockwise, but people often say, oh, did you hand cut them? I could hand cut them, but it would just, the, the time it would take me to sit there and accurately cut them would just outprice the piece for people to be able to have and, and have in their house. 

Muaz

Also, I think when it comes to metal workers, jewellers, you know, silver and Goldsmiths, I think you guys have got a pretty interesting advantage when it comes to technology, especially with like all of these, you know, the direction in which you see digital fashion actually going in and we get the odd request and you know, we get questions around things like digital sculpting, whether it’s possible to actually look at something using augmented reality where you want to look at something in a semi virtual environment. And all of that starts with CAD and or some sort of 3D model. So like the fact that, you know, when it comes to metal work, when it comes to the areas that you work in, the fact that it’s a pretty important part of your steps now is almost future proofing you when it comes to five years from now where potentially, I mean, we don’t know whether that’s the direction things will take, but if that is a direction that things will take, you’re kind of diversified with that skill now. On your website, if a client wants to look at that ring in augmented reality where they’ve got their app over here and they’re kind of trying to see that, the fact that you can mock it up in 3D and potentially make it available on your website means that that jump is not gonna be as extreme.

Ben

Yeah, I mean, you have to use a CAD package. You kind of have to know how you would make the piece in a way because it’s, it’s not exactly the same. You know, it would be brilliant if there was a CAD package out there for jewellery designers to sort of say, you know, put this cylindrical section around here. But the way in which you’d have to do it is basically create a curve and flow. Assert the profile that you want that to be along that curve to create the shape. So you have to have those initial thoughts and ideas as how you want the piece to look, but as you were saying, it can eliminate a lot back and forth with with the client and especially working in precious metals, obviously there’s always a high cost with the material and once a piece has been modeled, I can get a pretty good calculation as to what that will weigh in either gold, platinum, or silver. And that helps me when pricing and, uh, you know, working to client budgets as well.

So it’s great in that respect. I feel the only sort of, so. It’s, it’s not a downfall or a negative, but one of the tricky things is when people can see something in CAD, you can just keep zooming so that you can see every little detail and something that is, you know, maybe meant to be a prong that ends up being 0.65 of a millimetre in diameter on a screen, on, on a laptop screen, or you know, even on an iPhone screen or something. Or when you send a video to a client. They’re concerned about the scale of the piece because they can literally see it the size of their phone screen. And then obviously when you zoom out to the actual size, it’s quite difficult for people to then see anything that’s going on, but that’s where I find that 3D printing helps as well.

I like to only really use 3D printing to then go into manufacture, but on certain pieces, if, if someone’s really struggling to kind of get their head around the, the size of something. You know, it is a really useful tool again. 

Muaz

When it comes to an actual piece that you’re working on, say for, let’s say for example, a commission for a trade show, what sort of journey, what arc does that take and what kind of timelines do you look at when it comes from, uh, so, so say if you’ve got a trade show happening this month in November, when does your process actually start and what does that arc look like?

Ben

In terms of creating something for a particular show that is just a design from my head to then try and sell. It can be, it could be as long as sort of three months to a month. But I would say, you know, from something from start to finish, I would never want any less than really a month, especially if it’s including sort of that design creation, figuring out the best way of making it, and then having a final, a final piece. But it often just, it depends on the size and the complexity of the piece. For instance, when someone comes to me and wants a bespoke engagement ring, I would always say to them that the absolute sort of shortest turnaround would be four to six weeks just, you know, fitting in amongst other work, obviously things can be done quicker and a lot of people that are looking to get proposed often sometimes spring that upon you at last minute.

But again, if they want something that’s really quite unique. It would take about minimum a month. That’s what I like to say and the idea is that you obviously have a number of jobs lined up like that, but I wouldn’t say things can be done much, much quicker than, you know, four to six weeks. 

Muaz

All else equal would the actual size of the piece, so for example, if it’s like a ring versus a centrepiece for a table, but the complexity is relatively similar, would the approach be different and would the timelines be different or would you still be looking at a similar kind of approach? 

Ben

They are definitely different. A ring, whilst you could have all sorts of intricate detail on the ring. There is a finite amount of surface area to, to a piece like that. Whereas say a large centrepiece could be, you know, it could be, could be really big. I mean, I’ve been fortunate to be able to be involved in designing and making sculptures as well, and realistically with a sculptural piece I wouldn’t; again, it depends on the size and the complexity of it, but I would say nine times out of 10, they tend to like span over the course of a year, um, to, to really sort of execute that. And again, there’s always back and forth. There’s discussions with, when you are working on a larger scale piece, if it’s a sculpture, you know, you have to speak to like a structural engineer.

You have to discuss with a client how that piece is even gonna enter the site. But yeah, in terms of finishing, you know, it takes a huge amount of time to, to finish a large scale piece as opposed to say, an engagement ring and silverware and products like that kind of fit somewhere in between. But it’s, it’s funny because in some ways, and it’s kind of a thing within the trade, you know, you can make a piece of jewellery and probably sell it for, in some, in some cases, more than a piece of silverware that might have even had more work go into it. But there’s just a preconception as to the materials used in a ring, especially if it has a, a precious stone in it. As opposed to say, I don’t know, like a, a vase or something that’s made out silver that actually has lots of time put into it. There, there is definitely a difference, but, and again, a lot of people just sort of specialize at, at a particular sort of size product, but where we’ve been able to say, pick up some of the sculptural jobs is, is our determination and and promise to the client that we’re gonna execute it with the same level of finish as a piece of jewellery. And whilst that takes us a long time to do that. In my sort of experience, you are only as good as your last job and you have to, you know, we’ll give a hundred percent on something, even if it’s not always the best business sense. But even if you’re potentially gonna make a loss on something, you know, if you’ve promised something to the client and you’ve got it wrong time-wose, we’re not in the business of saying, right, that’s it, and there’s a few file marks here, or, it’s not done correctly. You just have to sort of learn from that mistake and, and move on, but still finish it to the standard that you promised. And I think that’s probably been the thing that’s stood me in good stead over the years is that because therefore, at least your quality is never questioned.

Muaz

I never thought about the inclusion of structural engineers for the larger pieces, but that kinda makes sense because you need to take the structural integrity of where you’re actually moving the particular product, depending on how big it is. So how early on to start involving a structural engineer if it is the kind of size you perceive would need one.

Ben

Very early on, really, and this again, is where technology plays into our hands. You know, we’ll create a CAD drawing of the design and it can take a long time. You know, making sure that everything is the right thickness and you know that the screws say that holding it together is the right diameter. But doing all of that work virtually in the CAD then enables us to send a file over to the structural engineer and then they can test it through their various packages that they use to test the strain and tensile strength on something. I remember we had one piece that we did for the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust, and it’s on the site of William Shakespeare’s, where his house used to be.

We made two sculptures there, a terrestrial sphere, which was a large stainless steel sphere with a solid brass gold plated orbit at the heart of it, but it was cantilevered on a single spike. And we got to the installation of the installation day piece and there was always some back and forth between, cuz there’s obviously lots of people involved in a project like that from the site managers to the stone masons and the stone plinth that was there. Initially when it was put to us, it was going to be a granite and it ended up being a sandstone, which is obviously a lot softer. And we ended up actually having to adapt the design. We couldn’t install the piece that day. We tried to, but because of the weight and the cantilever pressure was putting on the softer specs stone, we ended up having to take the piece back and then use a solid stainless steel plate to, to distribute that weight more evenly. And you know, it wasn’t really, no one had done anything wrong. It was just the structural engineer basically said that the angle that we’d had the spike at was fine, but where it got lost in translation was as to what the material the stone plinth ended up being.

But you know, you just find you work around it, you don’t let anything sort of, but you can’t, you have to, you know, it’s going to have to be installed, so you just sort of have to put your thinking hat on and, uh, come up with a new idea. But no, in, in a way, I think it, it finished off the piece nicer. It enabled us to house some integral lighting to uplight the piece.

Yeah. So, but the CAD definitely, you know, that’s another massive bonus. And like I said, with the, with the jewellery. It can help with things like clasps and catches. Even if you don’t say 3d print that part and, and use it as a, as a cast part that you then clean up, but you just know the angle in which you need to bend a piece of metal to. That can be great and, and again, with. You know, creating say some geometry that isn’t worth laser cutting, but you can literally print that perfect pattern that you created in a CAD program onto a sheet of A4, double side, down onto a piece of metal, and then you can hand pierce it out. So there’s definitely, that’s why I say it’s another tool in your repertoire and your toolbox if you can use technology in that way, and that’s what we do.

You can find Ben online at:

• Website: www.benjaminjamesryan.com
• Website: www.bjrdesigns.com
• Twitter: @bjrdesigns
• Instagram: @bjrdesigns

You can listen to the whole interview podcast over on our podcast page or by clicking here at A Silversmiths Journey.